Why social democrats should vote Green: from a former NDP candidate

I grew up NDP, and through my adult life shared interest in Greens and NDP. I finally joined the NDP while working in global health, under the inspiration of Stephen Lewis. Stephen Lewis remains a greatest living Canadian for me. I left the NDP when I realized that unlike Lewis, the NDP weren't very social and weren't very democratic.

From my experience as a 'New' Democratic Party candidate, here are several reasons why I say this, and there are likely more. These are the opinions of an ex-NDP candidate, they do not reflect the views of the NDP. For the NDP's own good, I hope they receive a message in the next election akin to what happened to the PC party under Mulroney, and are reduced to nothing. Canada needs a party that stands for social justice, ecological wisdom, peace, respect for diversity, sustainability and participatory democracy. And a woman as Prime Minister! (Blogs are opinions and may not reflect the position of the GPC.) Here's why social democrats shouldn't vote NDP, but Green instead.

1. The NDP is not transparent when it comes to party policy. You will not see the actual policy resolutions decided on at national conventions, it is not available to the public. The Green party publishes it's complete party policy and history of policy-making. One may not agree with some of the resolutions, but at least you know what was passed. With the NDP, no one really knows what resolutions were passed except the caucus or anyone that can remember the convention. There is no public access to the NDP's actual policy.

2. The NDP does not invite participation and even rejects it.
- The party brass pick and choose from the hidden policy to decide what’s good political strategy at the moment, and if they talk to people, it's only to get testimonials to support their case. You cannot possibly get the party to respond to an issue it hasn't planned centrally, even if you are a candidate. Party brass is always talking about scarce resources and the 'fortunes of the party'. But why give them seats, is this how they would govern?
- The party uses the same types of controversial voter information technology as the other parties, which invades privacy encourages people to be entirely selfish in their politics (NDP Vote).
- They use Civicspace as their web technology platform, but they do not use it as a space for civic participation, all content is centralized on ndp.ca, you cannot even post a comment. Civicspace is a sister to Drupal, used by Greens, but the name "Civicspace" describes the intent to which the Green Party uses Drupal. The NDP has no participatory web media, despite having the platform designed for it.

As an example of the lack of participatory democracy, I was trying to suggest to the NDP for months and months as a candidate that they adopt democratic media (later discovered the Greens were way ahead of them and me!). Suggestions in the NDP meet with silence. The NDP does not listen to its membership, and doesn't have participatory democracy as a principle.

3. The NDP has forgotten the issues of the non-working poor. The NDP is the party of 'working families' and 'ordinary Canadians'. The Liberals, by coincidence are also a party for 'ordinary Canadians' and 'working families', as are the Conservatives. The NDP doens't seemed to be as concerned with people who can't work, or the homeless. Has the NDP come to that Conservative thinking of the 'deserving' and 'undeserving' poor? The NDP does not have social justice as a principle.

4. The NDP has a stunning lack of vision. They only seem to react to the other parties. They're playing the game just like the rest. They like to play the 'good guy', standing up for the 'little guy', but where are their policy proposals? The NDP is thin on ideas. I've been told the NDP has a policy of supporting the Gauranteed Living Income, but you can't find the policy, as I've said. The NDP does not have a vision.

5. The NDP has poor leadership. Jack Layton has all the markings of a charismatic dictator. Everywhere he can put one up, he's got a massive photo of his head. Suffering from the charismatic dictator syndrome, Jack is really interested in power and recognition. Only he doesn't get that he's not actually that charismatic. The NDP is closer to the one-man American presidential style, than Tommy Douglas' grass-roots social democracy.

6. The NDP infantilizes its communication. The campaign literature is written at a grade four level. While they are busy with their corporate message to attract 'ordinary Canadians', they bank on the loyalty of their long-time social democrat supporters to quietly support them and hope they don't notice the Green party. Candidates have a 'message box', and in it they're told to ignore the Green party, hoping it will go away if they never mention them. When they do mention Greens, it is fear-mongering that the Greens are 'really conservative'. Which is funny next to the truth of a party which rises above the tired debates of the left-right spectrum. The NDP has turned it's communications over to professional strategists, and is not true to itself as a result.

7. The most recent NDP statement of values and principles was in the 1983, and is only found on the Guelph riding website , not on the party website (btw, I have a few candidates and MP's I'd love to bring over, and Tom King is one!). They have not succeeded in their internationalization objectives as with the Global Greens and in 1983 they stood for democratic socialism not social democracy . The NDP has no discernible values, and along with no principle on participatory democracy and social justice, and they no current values or principles on ecological wisdom, on non-violence, sustainability, or respect for diversity either . They only have their 'Great Leader'. Where, if anywhere, do they stand today? In short the NDP stands for:

N - No
D - Damn
P - Principles

Not so 'new', not so 'democratic', not very social.

You might ask yourself, can an ordinary citizen effect change in a democratic society throgh the political process? Candidates in the NDP are expected to promote the message of the party, but when it comes to participating in the message and policy, they are shut out. I was in the position of saying to voters, well, I could listen to you as a candidate, but it doesn't matter what you say, because if elected the party wouldn't listen to me anyway, so please let me give you a picture of Jack Layton and we'll call it a day! The NDP will not listen to you, so why should you listen to them? It would be naive to assume they'd start listening if they were only to get more seats or govern.

Social democrats will still wonder, as I did, whether the fiscal policy of the Greens is going to be bad for the poor. In another blog, I will discuss why the Greens fiscal policy is the best for social justice. I will make the argument that GP policies are more social than the NDP, more fiscally responsible than the Conservatives, and more liberating than the Liberals. The only thing we can't do is separate Quebec, so the Bloc has us there.

have fun!

Arif Jinha

www.stratongina.net

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We need the NDP -

Hey, if we didn't have the NDP, who would come up with innovative policies like lowering bank ATM fees?

Who else could vote against a motion to bring the troops home in 2009, leaving them there until 2011 or later, because 2009 wasn't soon enough?

And where else could we find suitable habitat for the extremely endangered moustage-burrowing owl?

Erich Jacoby-Hawkins
Barrie, ON

The views I express on this blog are purely my own and should not be construed to represent the official position of the Green Party of Canada - the same goes for all other people's posts & comments.

Erich Jacoby-Hawkins, Barrie ON - although I'm on Cabinet (Nat'l Rev. and Ecol. Fiscal Reform), views here are my own and may not reflect official GPC positions. Please visit www.ErichtheGreen.ca

NDP? Who cares.

I am always surprised that people actually vote NDP. There are a few bright lights in the party (Cheri di Novo and Peter Tabuns provincially) but by and large the party has turned into a bunch of whiners with very little to contribute. The NDP in Ontario actually ran on RAISING electricity rates during the last election. They didn't even put out a platform! How did the party that fought so hard for a national Medicare system fall so far?

NDP? Not your Dad's Party. For me, it's time to vote for a new vision of Canada. That's why I support the Green Party.

Jeff, I don't remember the NDP saying that

"The NDP in Ontario actually ran on RAISING electricity rates during the last election."

.... um, I thought during the Ontario election a high school student had criticized Howard Hampton why keeping electricity cheap was a not good for the environment.

Also I think Mr. Hampton said he would keep energy cheap for manufacturing companies.

In any case, I don't remember the Ontario NDP running on such a thing.

Julien's right

Julien is right. The NDP was in favour of a decrease in electricity rates, which was insane because it would mean that it would create an even greater incentive for people to waste electricity. Right now people's electricity bill in Ontario is subsidized by taxpayers, which means that you can conserve all you want and simply end up subsidizing the energy hog next door. They wanted to drop the cost so they could subsidize the pulp and paper industry in Northern Ontario---which would accelerate the clear-cuts in the boreal forest to make toilet paper. (I talked to a retired pulp mill manager and he said that most of the whining from the industry is bogus anyway because they usually have their own electricity generation plants. So who's fooling who?)

By all means we should help the poor with their electricity bills, but the NDP strategy was all about propping up industrial users who were too short-sighted to invest in energy efficiency when times were good. This would simply postpone any move towards a more sustainable society. If we allow our economy to crash and burn in an ecological collapse the poor will be freezing to death on our streets and what good will NDP politics do them then?

"There is always an easy solution to every human problem--neat, plausible, and wrong." H.L. Mencken

"There is always an easy solution to every human problem--neat, plausible, and wrong." H.L. Mencken

Oh boy, do I have egg on my

Oh boy, do I have egg on my face. I actually meant lower but somehow wrote raise. Raising electricity rates wouldn't be much of a reason to criticize them would it.

Thanks for catching this!

Let's rise above the mudslinging

I used to vote NDP but turned to the Greens for many of the reasons above, however, let's not get in the habit of slinging too much mud. One of the reasons I switched to Green was their habit of promoting their principles instead of simply slagging the other parties. Let's leave that game to the opposition.

Agreed

I'm in much of the same position as you, and although I've since switched, still know many friends, relatives, and acquaintances that are involved with the NDP. Accusations and naming calling won't get either party(NDP or Greens) ahead in any way. Sometimes we can be critical of the NDP, but I still think it's important to work together.

"People of good faith, figuring out where we are, not falling victim, making choices, based on our values, with the best available information." These views are my own and do not represent the official position of the Green Party of Canada.

Respect for diversity

I have to agree with Shaun on this one. Our goal is not to show voters why the other parties are wrong; our goal is to show voters why we deserve their support.

For those of us who are politically active, it is easy to forget that for most Canadians, politics is a dirty game, and voting is often a difficult, sometimes desperate, choice within a flawed system. Let's not dump on people for the decisions they have made under these circumstances. Let's give them an option which is clearly superior.

The social democrats have a valid point of view and perspective. Myself, I believe that many of the ultimate societal goals of social democracy are best attained through the values and goals of the Green Party. If they choose to believe differently, then I respect that.

Jim Johnston,
Lambton-Kent-Middlesex

Opinions expressed are my own.

Jim Johnston, Lambton-Kent-Middlesex Opinions expressed are my own.

mud slinging?

Greetings,

First off welcome Arif Jinha, good to have you here on the blogs as well.
I agree with your well expressed post.

I will go a little further in my view of political tactics and the up coming battle I have in my riding.
As a person on the receiving end of the Now Done Party and their own and real mud slinging I YES ..say .....have at em!!!!!
They deserve what is coming.
Had I the money I would be suing them myself ! right now.
The NDParty is gone....its the lieyton now done party now.
Many of the ndp's own members know it..... as even 80% of them want Ms May in the TV leaders debate..sad..imagine 80% of lieytons ndp party want Ms May in the debate and yet a so called ...hahha.... democratic party leader ....refuses.

When lieyton gives me back the thousands of dollars/hours I personally spent helping him ...the way he personally asked us to do .... only to have him then ... just turn into a complete coward and hypocrite right in front of myself and my team ....well...sorry ...only then would/will I stop preaching the truth of him and them.
It isn't mud slinging.
Its the truth!
You calling "speaking the truth" about someone that i was personally involved with while these same people are now attempting to be given the keys to the power structure of my country...by again misleading Canadians ...well again I am sorry ,sir ...I consider it my duty as a Canadian citizen to tell all what they really are....etiquette .....be dammed!!
We are not talking about some anonymous saintly group.
We are talking about some of the most important posts in our country and the people deserve to be represented on at least the same rung as these other parties true masters.
I am not whining at some social function about someones fruit salad.

Lieytons reckless immature vote against ending the war by 2009 will cost the lives of some ones children.....nothing saying he couldn't have excepted that as the worst and worked to further his goals.....instead we will be there for much longer than most obviously see so far.

They voted for mandatory minimum sentences ...killed the national child care bill over election fever and yes because of lieytons ego..... extended the Afghan war probably by many many years !
In the mean time lieyton went out to save Afghan's some ATM money ....but only if they were seniors hahaha.
Fling all the mud you want at me....I have conscientiously stood as actually good to my word unlike some who just profess to do and have zero to hide.....I will cast the first stone here with lieyton and the Now Done Party anytime ....he deserves it and I hope it happens.
The good people from the ndp within the lieyton ndp will only benefit in the long run from mine and others work (what some consider mud)
and really I will credit lieyton with one thing ....triplying the Green Party members and VOTES !!

Don't let them tell you it cant be done ....I agree Jack.

Cheers

juror.ca

endprohibition@telus.net

Rationale

My friends,

These are things that I needed to get off my chest. In my view, mudslinging is a practise of using non-substantive but perhaps sensational arguments to bring down an opponent, and in a way that is unfair. For example, perhaps someone's indulgences or lifestyle, or past or personality traits which are not really interfering with their role as public figures, but which can be used to bring them down. The subject of these criticisms are the substantive failings of the NDP, if there is bitterness in my tone, the bitterness is borne of real experience.

People who look at the truth of the NDP, who have been their supporters, have three choices. Try and reform the NDP from within (which many of my colleagues continue to try and do without success), vote them to insignificance in order to force them to reform (as the PC party had to), or look to a fresh party that has values of social justice, ecological wisdom, peace, participatory democracy, sustainability and diversity.

What struck me as a candidate leaving the NDP and thinking about the other party (Greens) that has been with me in tandem for more than a decade, was the performance of the Greens on issues that go to the core of democracy, as compared to the NDP. In the same way, I could look to the United States nine trillion dollar public debt, compared with the strong economic performance of the EU, and argue that the EU has a far better fiscal policy. These are judgments we come to based on the evidence.

In politics, there is loyalty that prevents people from seeing the truth. I could fill many blogs with stories of how the party's internal performance eroded my loyalty. But the comparisons I'm making here, are on criteria which can be compared objectively for the most part(the Green's do publish their policy, NDP does not, for instance), that go beyond my personal experience, and I provide evidence to back my claims. In a sense, part of my purpose is to be a whistleblower for those who have illusions that the NDP is the right party to lead this country, or even the opposition.

The claims for comparison were on the issues of transparency, participatory democracy, the NDP's presidential leadership style, the NDP's forsaking of the non-working poor (who don't tend to vote in large numbers), corporatization of NDP's marketing and communications (I received automated fundraising voice-mail messages, for instance), and basically a culture among the party core where long-time staffers are burnt out and cynical, and where the cynicism has meant an expedient politics. This is in contrast to the visionary and constructive politics that marks the Green Party.

The core arguments here are solid, true and substantive and I stand by them. Elections can be tough, and NDPer's are going to repeat the mantra that Greens are right wing, because if there is anything that will scare an NDP supporter, it is right-wing politics - hard to blame the voter when Harper represents this! Is there any substance to this argument? No. The Greens differ from the Cons on virtually every issue - drug policy, environmental policy, social policy, internet and copyright policy. The Greens 'fair trade' free market economics is quite different that the Cons 'wild market' that turns a blind eye to human rights, labour, environmental and equity issues. The NDP occupies a competitive space with many of our policies, but have the NDP explained a comprehensive logic to their platform? Or are most of their positions 'good guy' positions without a logic of implementation? Moreover, is the NDP as a party healthy, inclusive and participatory? the answer is no. For a party that espouses social democracy, the lack of internal social democracy is an issue of hypocrisy. The party does not walk the talk.

I realize that some may argue that the NDP's problem is that social democracy is wrong. I believe, however, that social democratic principles, should they be applied through process and policy, are good and very close to the Green party. The proposals of the international reformist movement, as articulated by people in the UK such as David Held and Jan Aarte Scholte, are very similar to Green social and economic policy. The reformists are gaining ground on the neo-con/neo-liberal hegemony on macro-policies of globalization and are the closest to replacing them, and many proponents are described as international social democratic and at the same time, the environment is first on the agenda of international reform. It is also likely that in a democracy, having a spectrum of ideas is healthy, from conservatism, to liberalism, social democracy, marxists etc. In Europe, social democrats and greens are always the most likely to form coalitions. There are two situations that would have to change in order for us to be in that position. The first is clearly electoral reform, and the second is for the NDP to have a renewal. I don't think they are really even very aware of the international social democratic green movement, and they don't seem to even fit.

In reality, policies flow from hybridization and synthesis of ideology, and yet only the Green Party gets the reality of this and avoids ideological boxes. However, the argument that liberalism, social democracy, deep ecology or even conservatism as ideologies or theories, are wrong, are perhaps questions impossible to answer empirically because people will not agree on the assumptions from which a test could flow. The question of whether people are consistent with their principles, is a matter of falsification and easier to test.

The very least the NDP could do, is to be consistent with their support for representative democracy and electoral reform (under which conditions the Greens would have seats and be represented in debates) and support, even vigorously, the inclusion of Elizabeth May in leader's debates. The fact that they do not, is hypocritical. For some reason, NDP supporters are given to ignoring this hypocrisy, they themselves have fallen into the trap of caring more about winning, then process. Does winning matter, if hypocrisy is needed to win it?

What I hope from this is a warning. I think the Greens will succeed in gaining momentum and ground in Canadian politics. In a sense, my critique of the NDP can in fairness be joined with a critique of the Greens, though the critique of the Greens is not a consequence of their choices, but a consequence of being new. If anyone knows Zygmaunt Bauman, I'm about to lift one of his ideas and put it in a different context. Bauman talks about the 'tourists' and the 'vagabonds' in the context of globalization and migration. In this conception, mobility has more status than roots in contemporary globalization. 'Vagabonds' are one's left behind, tourists are the ones who can come and go, an intellectual elite that is globally connected and mobile. The NDP are the vagabonds. The Greens have not yet had elected MP's, and have not seen the party dragged through the Parliamentary mud, and unkown to us are when policies backfire, when we are criticized in power for real outcomes of our decisions, fairly or not. The NDP have had their best policies implemented by other parties - the Human Rights Act, Medicare, pensions etc. They haven't had federal power themselves. They got left behind, and they also sold out.

The Greens are the tourists. We have the luxury of critique from the outside, and we attract intellectual elites, cutting-edge thinkers and highly-educated people. The policies are spot on, but the party is untested. We haven't had the chance to be left behind, or sell out.

Perhaps the discussion raises the question of whether the ideals of participatory democracy and the values and principles of the party can endure success, power, tough electoral fights, seat wins, controversies, scandals, losses.

What I've found in Greens is a genuine politics, an authentic politics, and I believe that there are risks to losing this - power corrupts, as they say. Sometimes it is the wayward path of others that teaches the straight path for ourselves. Not a path of perfection, but one of authenticity which doesn't forget that seven generations are at stake, and that doesn't forget that integrity of process, of means are as important, perhaps more important than ends.

So yes, we will face mud. I hope we do not get into extraneous attacks, but focus on substance. I hope that we can praise other parties when they do the right thing, but we must be ready to criticize forcefully and hold them to account. I believe what a party needs most is humility, the ability to reflect and self-critique, willing to be held accountable to its principles. No other party in Canada does that. The other parties behave like disordered personalities, hyper-critical of others, selfish, unable to praise others, defensive and unable to see their own faults. Canadians are desperately looking for something that isn't more of the same. The Greens are doing this now, can we sustain it through success?

As I said. These were things to get off my chest! I promise that the NDP will not be the main subject, now that I've said what I had to say.

many, many thanks for your comments!

Arif Jinha

Not Christian or Jew or Muslim, not Hindu,
Buddhist, sufi or zen
...only that breath breathing human being
(credit of my signature goes to rumi's poem).

Arif Jinha Not Christian or Jew or Muslim, not Hindu, Buddhist, sufi or zen ...only that breath breathing human being (credit of my signature goes to rumi's poem).

Here's to openness and honesty

Greetings,

In case it wasn't apparent I may have a small bone to pick with the leader of the ndp but not outside of political arenas and I am not any threat or risk to any one outside of using my passion against those I consider hypocrites and will not hesitate to show examples of such character flaws or miscues in my personal campaign for the Green Party.
I guess I was so up lifted and moved by your post that I wanted to express the shared feelings of being let down by a party I once too believed very much in.

Welcome to the Green Party Blogs ...where you are actually free to express your personal view and allowed to learn from each and every one of us other Greens.
I for one look forward to your thoughts on other issues.

Cheers

juror.ca

endprohibition@telus.net

Ad Hominen attacks hurt you if you use them.

Lambton Kent Middlesex EDA (SW Ontario)
Every single statement in an ad hominen attack may be true, and yet counter-productive.
First, you do not gain any respect.
Secondly, it takes attention away from your main message. People may go away remembering only the bad things you laid upon your opponent.
Third, your practice of using ad hominen attacks means you can not embarass your opponent by asking for a return to issues and policies.
Fourth, when you are making accusations, most of what you say can be described as a baldfaced lie, no matter how true, because you do not have witnesses right there to counter that claim. It is you who go out of the debate looking bad. It might be useful to prove in a court months from now that what you said was justifiable, but you have already been tarred as a liar in many minds.

You need every bit of public exposure to get your message across, and can not allow yourself to be distracted with personal attacks, making them or defending yourself from them. Even when an opponent launches an unfounded attack, it is best to say "I do not wish to call you a liar, so I suggest you retract that statement." And go away from the matter, even if your opponent persists. You can not anticipate whether your opponent may have stacked teh audience with supporting witnesses, so unless you have proof that you can wip out that will be acknowledged by any fair person, you are not wise to respond further. Most offten an opponent will not attack you without some plan to 'prove' his allegations, even if by false means.

Lambton Kent Middlesex EDA (SW Ontario)

Walking away from personal attacks will be seen as weakness

Donald, you said:

Even when an opponent launches an unfounded attack, it is best to say "I do not wish to call you a liar, so I suggest you retract that statement." And go away from the matter, even if your opponent persists.

I disagree completely and utterly with this. This has been the attitude of the Democratic Party in the U.S. for years, and was most evident in the Bush/Gore presidential debates. Ignoring personal attacks is a sure way to lose an election, and the facts back me up.

Bush was seen as a stronger leader than Gore because he launched personal attacks - and Gore did exactly what you recommend. It is a losing strategy. Many, many people react at a gut level to walking away as weakness. This is why Stephen Harper is seen as a stronger leader than Stephane Dion: he attacks Dion and the response is...weak.

When Barack Obama was attacked for being "insufficiently patriotic," he hit back, hard. Not with personal attacks, but with truth and honour, and he put the Republicans in their place. Any candidate who walks away from a personal or unfounded attack cedes the field to his opponent in the minds of the voters. Check out my blog here on the subject of responding to attacks: http://www.greenparty.ca/en/node/4003.

Brian Gordon
Nominated Candidate, Esquimalt-Juan de Fuca
Green Party of Canada

Trained Presenter
An Inconvenient Truth

People - Planet - Prosperity
The New Green Economy

Brian Gordon Nominated Candidate, Esquimalt-Juan de Fuca Green Party of Canada Trained Presenter An Inconvenient Truth People - Planet - Prosperity The New Green Economy

QTIP

Quit taking it personally, QTIP. The whole point of the blog in the first place was to make an analytical critique of the NDP as representative of its original social democratic vision, and to question that. That is civil society. And now we have the internet, so that all of us get a chance to be Martin Luther. I was trying to be forceful, because that party let me down.

As you could see from the original post, my comments are political not personal. My beef with people in roles such as party leader, is in their performance in that role. People are people, and I hate the political focus on people's personal lives. I don't care if people have affairs etc. and I will be friends with anyone of any political stripe. Morals and pride don't matter to me. QTIP.

The confusion, I think, spells the greatest weakness of this party, which is written in its name - 'Green'. Not sufficiently experienced, but fresh. Does this party have the guts to actually represent in the House of Commons, does it have enough depth to overcome the obstacles? Does it have enough breadth to attract the mainstream? Will it get down and dirty but keep it on the political level? QTIP.

There are enough people who will see this party as a party of the concerned privileged dissenters. The holier than thou vote, unsullied by the political history of Canadian politics. Mostly white middle to upper class, fair trade drinking, re-useable shopping bag toting, organic farm-owning progreesives who live in places like the Glebe. An importation of European post-modern political idealism. The Green Party faces the risk of dismissed as cute by the mainstream. QTIP.

The party faces two choices now, playing at politics, or playing politics. Where is the fire? Politics is about debate, and I like that the Greens don't want to go on the personal. But if we can't make cogent, cutting critiques of parties and leaders in terms of political performance, we'll just be beating around the Bush.

arif

Arif Jinha Not Christian or Jew or Muslim, not Hindu, Buddhist, sufi or zen ...only that breath breathing human being (credit of my signature goes to rumi's poem).