Liberal Bashing
The vast majority of opinion in these blogs seem to be very prejudiced against the Liberals. And against Stéphane Dion as an individual. I think this attitude is wrong. Very wrong.
First of all, if you attack Stéphane Dion, you imply that Elizabeth May has made an error in judgment, that she is a poor judge of character. I do not agree on either count. I was also very pleased to read that Elizabeth is friends with David Orchard for life! For he is an utterly decent, highly intelligent and very honourable man. And I GUARANTEE you that he would not have chosen to support Stéphane Dion at the Liberal leadership convention unless he was absolutely convinced about the character of Stéphane Dion. He has had enough experiences with men like Peter MacKay for one political career! (Although he is by no means finished with him just yet.)
Give Stéphane Dion and the Liberals a break. Dion wants to see Elizabeth May elected. And so too does Orchard. Elizabeth WILL win.
Now, there is no question but that the Chrétien years ended in disgraceful failure. Paul Martin certainly admits it! And Stéphane Dion has inherited a real mess. But do not make the mistake of tarring all current Liberals with that same filthy brush. I have confidence in Stéphane Dion.
And so does our leader, Elizabeth May.
- Brad Thomson's blog
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Comments
NDP Bashing
Brad,
Your own postings on this BLOG could be interpreted as bashing the NDP, and there have been comments a few times about this. Elizabeth is certainly guilty of bashing the Conservatives.
As I and many others have said many times, the Green Party is made up of members and voters whose second choice is all over the political spectrum. Your second choice of the current crop of parties (now that your past first choice is gone) may be different than those you are discussing policy with. They see the Liberals as worse than the NDP, and you see the Liberals as better, and few in the Greens seem to have much good to say about the (no-loger-Progressive) Conservatives.
All these viewpoints need to be respected. I may not share them (I'm happy with some sitting MPs from each of the parties, but not supportive of any of the parties but the Greens), but will do everything I can to respect them. Many people don't separate the parties from the personalities, so will not separate Stéphane Dion from the party he is temporary leader of (and IMO will likely be turfed for being too green).
---
Russell McOrmond (Constituent, Ottawa South)
Check out my BLOG on Digital Copyright Canada.
Thank you Russell
I believe that I have also been very complimentary of and courteous to the NDP. In particular, on cooperative matters. Yes, I have been jabbing at Jack Layton with my tongue in my cheek, and I will accept that I have gone too far. But fundamentally I have been begging him to join Elizabeth and Stéphane. Why the hell can't he return phone calls? This should be clear. I expressed a specific difference of opinion with one of Broadbent's decisions, yes, but did not defame the man, and furthermore, included a Liberal in the complaint as well. All of this being said, forgive me for my comments that have been derogatory.
I do hope that Layton begins cooperating with Elizabeth and Stéphane.
Now what about the Liberals?
Abashed at the Bashing
Please tell what the character of called-for co-operation would be? At this stage, how could it be other than actually agreeing to unseat Conservatives by mutually limiting presentation of candidates? This seems highly unlikely, especially in the general context of "bashing" variously decried. Less likely still would be the most sensible co-operation to nationally introduce a move toward electoral reform right before the current parliament. And the party that should be a closer sibling in dissent is little likely to
to pay much open and honourable attention to Greens, for an important measure of Greens' behaviour off-putting to that would-be co-operator. I spent a long time on the telephone today sounding out a friend very active in the NDP (spouse a repeated candidate) about sources of perceived embitterment toward GPC. The cumulative effect of my friend's rehearsal of problematic behaviour was to have me ask whether political inexperience or grosser partisanship was its source. While I suspect more of the former, it was understandably the latter for my interlocutor. Perhaps prolonged exclusive concentration on Conservative-bashing, a very easy sport, will calm things enough for something of a much-needed rapprochement. Recourse to public invocations of a netherworld in frustration at the NDP might then be less likely to issue forth.
Given that the possibility of re-electing a Conservative government in some measure is very real, and that effective electoral co-operation among others is unlikely, one should be ready for co-operative post-election extra-parliamentary opposition.
Just Return Your Calls
As Elizabeth has stated, Mr. Layton was not interested in appearing with her and Stéphane. I wish he had been. The door remains open. We need the impact of the NDP. I agree with Elizabeth that it is unfortunate that Layton chose not to cooperate.
I agree with you fully about an immediate push for electoral reform.
Let liberal members change the party first
"First of all, if you attack Stéphane Dion, you imply that Elizabeth May has made an error in judgment, that she is a poor judge of character."
Brad this really isn't very productive. I personally do not need Elizabeth May to tell me what I hear and see.
When liberals have the courage of their convictions and stand up against their party leadership then I'll be impressed. These guys didn't stand up to Chretien enough and didn't stand against Martin when he back tracked on his promises of reform. For women and men of principle this isn't hard to do. But I am tired of the old adage that you have to betray your principles or stand silent. People in the traditional parties are under constant threat of expulsion if they disagree or vote against their instructions. On certain legislation this may make sense but not on human rights, child care, sending women and men to their deaths in conflict. I'm tired of people having to be the leader of the party before they stand up for anything. And this is the pattern of Canadian party politics in Ottawa for a half century and it stops cooperation, stops progressive legislation and creates status quo government.
I have plenty of disagreement with the NDP and certainly the Conservatives but the liberals have had their chance for over half a century and they blew it. They simply deserve no further quarter until they reform the party. And this can only be done away from power. Not from a place of power. They don't deserve to be in power.
The Green Party deserves the chance. We are the alternative.
Finally I think we should get past this deal with the liberals. It's done and it will either work or not work. Jack Layton may very well be willing to sit down and make joint declarations of solidarity on common issues but feels that the Green leader does not get a free ride into the House of Commons. Ms. May doesn't need it. Stephane Dion has given us something we didn't need. That is not very ground breaking. We should leave it alone and talk about other areas of cooperation.
Nominated Candidate for Trinity-Spadina, Toronto
www.trinityspadinagreens.ca
http://stephenlafrenie.blogspot.com
www.twawareness.org
www.mimeguy.com
This blog reflects my personal opinion. It is not official Green Party Policy. www.departmentofpeace.ca
http://stephenlafrenie.blogspot.com
A Long Way to Go
Thanks Stephen. I am in full agreement with you when you suggest that the Liberals have a VERY long way to go. But the respect that Stéphane Dion has shown to the Greens, and to Elizabeth May is certainly a start. You state, "When liberals have the courage of their convictions and stand up against their party leadership then I'll be impressed." I do not understand. Do you want Liberals to stand up against their Leader, Stéphane Dion, over the agreement he came to with the Greens? I, personally, will be impressed when the Liberals stand up WITH him! The Liberals HAVE changed at the top, let us hope that it works its way down. In particular, I would like to have seen the Liberal environment critic, David McGuinty, come out in full support of the cooperation. I think it is clear that Dion has shaken the Liberals to the core. HE is not the bad apple. Again, a long way to go, but a positive start to be sure.
I agree that Elizabeth would have beaten MacKay even without the Liberals stepping aside. To a cynical manner of thinking, one might argue that they would not have agreed to cooperate otherwise. But I will not be cynical about Stéphane Dion. He HAS made a public gesture to the Greens. And he was certainly NOT the Liberal establishment's choice for Leader. Most of the top brass wanted Ignatieff, a man who fully supported the American invasion of Iraq! Most of the others wanted Bob Rae. But the people on the convention floor said NO. And instead elected the greenest of possible leaders. The Liberals ARE changing. And Elizabeth, and ourselves are part of the proof! We are having a powerful effect now upon Canadian politics. And Elizabeth is leading the way.
I do disagree when you state that this deal is not ground breaking. It seems to me that it May end up being truly earth shattering. Time will tell. What is done is done and will play out as it will. But I think you are right, we DO need to talk about other possible areas of cooperation. For example, that the Liberal leader wants the Green leader in the televised debates! That the Liberal leader has spoken of electoral reform! That the Liberal leader has at least expressed true and genuine concern about the environment and the future of our planet! That the Liberal leader is going to see to it that David Orchard, a strong environmentalist, supporter of proportional representation, opponent of NAFTA, and friend for life of Elizabeth May gets into the House of Commons!
Perhaps leopards CAN change their spots.
Slavish adoration of Liberals must stop
Brad,
Your unrelenting support of Dion and the Liberals is undermining the Green Party and our leader by extension....and will make every GPC member's job harder in the election. These blogs are visible to the media and the world. You mean well, but please stop the unintended sabotage now.
Leo
Thanks Leo
Perhaps I have gone too far. But I want to support Elizabeth's agreement with Stéphane. And I want Kyoto and beyond implemented fast, before it is too late. I do not care who does it. So long as it happens. But I shall attempt to restrain my enthusiasm for the gesture of cooperation between the Greens and the Liberals. For I think you are right, and they WILL be our opponents in 307 ridings.
The will oppose us in 306, not 307
Lambton Kent Middlesex EDA (SW Ontario)
Both Elizabeth and Sterphan's ridings are not contested between Green and Liberal. does that not leav only 306?
Our task in the coming election is to sell the Green view, not to dissuade voters from voting for other parties.
Why? because we want to gain ardent supporters, not just voters eager to defeat someone else.
Stick to presenting our view, stay on point.