Harper's Triple-U Senate.

 Harper now supports a Triple U Senate: Unelected, Unequal, and unqualified.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/harper-to-appoint-close-tory-backers-to-senate/article1266017/

Wow, Harper's master plan on senate reform seems to have changed from reforming to plumping.  He must be ready to retire or feel he is getting close to defeat.

Amongst his new found patronage spots are a former aid, the current Conservative president, and the Husband of one of his cabinet ministers.

If only the Greens would take the lead on Senate Reform..

Comments

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

it's not like...

...i haven't spoken up repeatedly here the past few blogging years about the senate...& its positive possibilities...

Senate Reform.

Its probably the one issue we agree firmly on.

I think our core principle of participatory democracy dictates that we support reforming the Senate to remove any unelected representatives from having a formal role in the legislative process.

It is unfortunate that we have not been more vocal on what it

If we want to attract small-c Conservatives voters and win ridings like SGI, this is the issue we need to champion.

This issue on its own almost unilaterally lead to a small unknown populist party redrawing the political spectrum in 1993.

We should call for a proportional Senate as they have in Australia,

Past Policy

I buy that as a good stance

It's abundantly clear that we need to forge links across the political spectrum. This could be a good stick to beat the CPC with, and it certainly resonates with Greens. Why not test the idea? At a minimum, it could make the CPC very uncomfortable, and put them on the defensive with their 'base'.

Smart Direction

The senate reform idea is one I fully support.  Not sure about the method, but if you want you can work within current rules (ie: avoid another nightmare of getting the provinces onside) by having an agreement by the parties to select and put in people based on popular vote with those people agreeing to leave the senate when the next election comes and reset who is there based on popular vote.

Thus the ballot would have who you want as your local represenative (as it is today) plus which party you want to represent you in the senate.  Seats assigned based on percent gained per party, you must get a high enough percentage to 'earn' a seat in order to get to pick a person.  Seats given out provincially as they are today.  Thus a lower percent required for a seat in Ontario than in PEI but given seats per person it would take fewer raw votes in PEI to get a seat than in Ontario.

If a senator refuses to leave when an election occurs (as they have the right to refuse right now) then that party loses a seat selection and gets a lot of negative publicity over it.  IE: if someone has been a thorn in a parties side since being put in there and they want to kick them out then that person can drive the party up the wall and refuse to leave at the end of the term until they hit the mandatory retirement age.

Later on true reform can occur via negotiations with the provinces and a referendum if needed.  However, this would work as a short term elected/equal solution that would pull a lot of CPC voters who are mad about their party dumping senate reform onside by showing how a simple reform could be done today and a greater one later on.

John Northey
Wellington-Halton Hills

Senate Reform

Perfect non-environment issue to hammer at in the next election, it will draw voters away from the CPC, and also get us traction with some of the other party supporters as well, and help us to deflate the single issue label.   We could have a long term goal of the triple E and a short term option of John's proposal, which probably would not fly anyway because it relys on agreement between the parties and I figure that has about as much chance of success as a snowball's in certain southern locals.  It would also have the added benefit that if they shoot it down we can hammer away at the Politics as usual angle and that we are the only alternative that will work for Canada's best interest.

I don't see anyways we can

I don't see anyways we can effectively do it without a constitutional amendment regarding term limits. Anything else will be at the whim of the government of the day. If Liberals win, will Conservative Senators resign??

The question is do you offer up all the seats each election, or half the seats as other places do.  I'd be fine with all the seats,  but 8 years would be better than life.

However, a national referendum can be used to initiate it and by-pass the provinces. This should be the route. Who the hell is going to risk taking a stand an unelected senate.  You can use obstructionist methods in parliament, but in a referendum you have to campaign on it.

Heck, all we need to do is call for a referendum.  

Referendum

Yeah, we all know how well referendum's have been going when it comes to changing the system eh?

A big problem for electoral reform of any kind is the average Canadian feels things are OK as is and sees no need to change.  Change is scary to the average person.

Now, how to get serious changes done?  Hard to say.  But we can certainly put the pressure onto the other parties via a proposal like what I mentioned - it just requires parties to do 'the right thing'.  We know they won't, but putting pressure on them in a way that the media might just pick up on would be a big asset in an election where issues will be a jumbled up mess (given EI hasn't taken hold and the big issue seems to be which of Harper or Ignatieff do you like less).

John Northey
Wellington-Halton Hills

Yeah, the difference with BC

Yeah, the difference with BC and Ontario for a referendum is that we were replacing something that people were familiar with, with something that they were not.  

More so, we bombed with the right of center in BC, 20% support amongst BC Liberal voters, (and I assume a similar rejection from Conservative voters in Ontario as well)

Senate reform has right of center support already, thanks to the reform party associating it with conservative values.  (It is not, but people tend to support policies associated with their party, even if they would otherwise not.)

With the Senate, the objections are already dealt with.  It is already appointed.  Already, its $132K a year for Life.  

The debate is terms or lifelong appointment.  

Easy sell. Little framing.

Anyways, this so far has been

Anyways, this so far has been the Conservative's "baby".  

I'd like to see Senate Reform, but taking away Harper's cake would be the next best thing...

This is going somewhere interesting

I have long thought that we have to be careful about how our success impacts the Canadian political landscape. I am no fan (to put it mildly) of the social conservative agenda. Since Elizabeth's election as leader, we have shifted the public perception of us more to the 'left', with what (I hope) was an unintended result.

The impact of this has been terrible, and counter-intuitive. We have become THE major contributor to the repeated election of the CPC with a minority mandate. If we had the brains that god gave a hampster, we would have realised that an all out assault on the Conservative Party was the best favour we could do for the neocons. Instead, we should be carefully evaluating our platform, to ensure that we are poaching from all 3 Party's equally. Even if we are only able to split 2%-3% of the CPC vote away, then the result would be a Liberal minority, and a few extra dipper seats as well, while the CPC fades back into well deserved obscurity.

I am always happy to see Greens discussing policy options that will appeal directly to part of the CPC vote, as it might enable us to turn back the clock 5 years, and re-calibrate the election outcomes closer to what Canadians actually voted for.

I was in one of the ABC

I was in one of the ABC ridings in the last election, and I purposely put out literature that said real conservatives vote Green in the Conservative portions of the riding. 

http://dangrice.com/files/realconservatives.pdf

I was actually surprised at the response, having sign requests coming in on places I didn't think I would have. (Actually did better in some Conservative polls than my green ones do to strategic voting)

I think the left/right split is not reflective of people on the ground.  Many people who support a political party do so with no real grasp of their ideological meeting or even all the policies but do so because the party has framed their message to match something that is familiar with them.

We don't need to turn back are party 5 years, we just have to use the right framing and ask for Conservatives vote.  

Somebody better show that Flier to Fryer

If Fryer is managing Elizabeth's SGI campaign, somebody should show him your' flyer. He'll need all the help he can get to win the CPC vote in SGI. Your' flyer is not perfect, but you're doing the right thing. Wouldn't it be nice if there was a well researched conversion piece for you to print, and distribute to the Conservative friendly polls?

I'm not putting you down at all, I'm just saying that every individual EDA should not have to fly by the seat of pants. Ideally we should have tons of flyer templates, customizeable for the voter profile poll by poll. Good job Dan, and thanks for bringing this to everybody's attention.

Think tank ...tank?

Yes ...good point....and

Why do we not have a vault right now of "approved" ...LOL....EDA drawn up or member produced flyer's...cd's....templates.....dvd's....anything....everything ...?

 

Members can show initiative instantly and when ever the mood compels them.

 

Like maybe after watching this....Oh Canada

 

http://www.ohcanadamovie.com/

 

 

Cheers

 

 

 

(disclaimer:do not be confused and think shavluk is the green party talking...hahha) http://shavluk.com/ http://whyprohibition.ca/ http://juror.ca

Great Flier

It's just the sort of messaging we want to portray to the public. It does not deviate from green principles but puts front and center, ideas that the general public don't know about us and need to.  Yet another great tool to use in a future campaign, too bad it's not coming from HQ.