Libya protests et al
It looks like the revolt in Libya is going to be crushed. Since Libya has oil, it is unlikely that Ghaddafi will ever be held accountable for his crimes against humanity. In effect, the West has capitulated to oil. But let me not be too narrow in my call of shame.
The GPC has led with no voice on this issue, much in tune with many other organizations that seem to call for freedom in such "western backed" countries. For those who are content in sitting around arguing about whether the West can get involved, lest it look like an occupation because it is not clear what type of help is being requested, I would like to remind everyone that people do not have the right to endanger the lives of others. Nor, to be honest, do they actually have the right to subject themselves to slaughter either. So it is our obligation to prevent egregious immoral actions if practical, and this was a case where some practical action could have been taken.
Regardless, we have acquiesced to trepidity, and in so doing, we have emboldened such freedom loving leaders of Bahrain to bring in Saudi soldiers to quell protesters, of Saudi Arabia to declare protests an offense against god, and of Yemen to simply attack protesters with hired thugs with knives and rocks. It also looks like Egypt has shifted into neutral, perhaps getting ready to install Mubarak Lite(tm).
If we at least move past this, acknowledge that Ghaddafi has won, can we at least begin to call for his removal from power (along with his immediate family) and haul him in front of the ICJ? His family are all guilty of war crimes, there is no excuse for the indiscriminate shelling of your own citizens. Little attempt was made to clear areas prior to shelling, and Libya lacks precision armaments for aerial bombardment. Thus it was well understood before hand that he would simply be killing innocent people.
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Pot, Kettle
The only power that has sufficient assets to enforce a no-fly zone (the US) does not believe that the ICJ has jurisdiction over its own citizens. Would it not be a tad hypocritical to ask them to proscecute this issue? Not to mention that committing three carriers worth of aircraft to enforcing said no-fly zone would leave them a little light on assets if intervention is needed in Saudi Arabia or directly against Iran. Why do you think they have been so recalcitrant, waiting for UN Security Council action? Without US action, planes, ships and troops, nothing like what you would like to see can happen.
I suppose if we were able to get Bush, Bush Lite and Rummy in front of the judges (Clinton and Albright too! 500,000 dead pregnant women, children and old folks due to sanctions are not a crime against humanity?) for the travesty of Iraq, the West could move forward with such a prosecution.
You must also realize that to support protesters in Bahrain or Saudi Arabia would put in jeopardy the Western way of life. People get a little testy when you try to take their entitlements away, and believe me, taking 40% of world oil production offline for even one minute while the "good guys" try to spread a little democracy in Saudi Arabia would be catastrophic for all of us. I'm prepared for such an event, but I do not think the vast majority of Canadians are.
Your heart is in the right place, the moral indignation is totally what is needed, but pragmatically, what did you expect to happen?
The end is the means by which you achieve it. - Wilhelm Reich, Listen, Little Man!
Damned if they do, and damned if they don’t.
Clearly Obama wanted to avoid the same mistake as Bush; barging into a Muslim country (Iraq) to overthrow a mad dictator with a ‘coalition of the willing’. (Meaning the U.S., U.K. and totally insignificant forces from countries that were bribed to tag along.) Does anyone give the U.S. any credit for ousting Sadam? Its overshadowed by the horrendous destruction of life and continuing chaos that ensued from an invasion with no plan to fill the political vacuum and no exit plan.
The Europeans (especially Sarkozy) talk big but will not act. They don’t want to get involved in any way; they have enough problems with Muslims inside their own countries and want to avoid any messy complications, plus they need Libya’s oil. The Arab league may voice support but they don’t want the rebels to succeed and set another precedent to overthrow the status-quo.
Its not too late to supply arms and ammunition to the rebels, but the armament makers want to sell them, not donate to a charity – that’s their business.
So its up to the grand speech-maker, Obama. But he’s a harmonizer, who always seeks consensus, he’s not a decision maker, (or in ‘Bush-speak’ not a ‘decider’). He wants everyone to like him.
Meanwhile, Gaddafi uses such humane techniques as; filling an ambulance with soldiers, arriving on the scene and gunning down the unsuspecting rebels and finishing off the wounded.
Ghaddafi will be gone!
One day and quite a turn of events (so far anyway.) The UNSC voted for civilian protection in Libya. It does not permit an invasion force, which I presume to mean ground troops.
To the point of the ICJ made by Chris above: no, it would not be hypocritical. You either believe that the ICJ derives its moral authority internally, or you tacitly acknowledge it has no untainted authority, since you cannot know what influence it may be under.
The right to live free from indiscriminate shelling is so absolute that I even would accept a call from Ahmedinejad as being genuinely inspired. It needs to be something we stand up for. The GPC leadership could have at least made some sort of neutered call to stop the shelling.
No sane person commands his army to shell entire towns. This isn't the 1800's where warships fired cannon batteries offshore to level urban centres. No one should stand silent while it is happening. This is a whole magnitude worse than anything we have seen anywhere else in recent history, and it must never be established as a precedent.
Inaction would have allowed continued escalation of violence in Bahrain and Yemen; it would also have immediately quenched protests in Syria, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, and potentially Jordan who now will be forced to feign moderation. This is bigger than Libya. Standing around and doing nothing while Ghaddafi's troops stampede across the river Rubicon is no service to anyone.
Iraq doesn't count?
Bunker busters (4500lb bombs), white phosphorus, cluster bombs and napalm are all indiscriminate and all were used in Iraq by the United States. The use of depleted uranium ammunition by itself is a crime against humanity.
Can we at least agree that getting all bent about Libya and being all kissy kissy with the United States is a wee bit hypocritical of us as a nation? Or should we simply capitulate our nationhood and admit that we are merely a province of empire? If this is truly the case, silence from the political class in Canada is not optional, it is required.
The end is the means by which you achieve it. - Wilhelm Reich, Listen, Little Man!
This has nothing to do with the United States.
Wanting to protect Libyan civilians has nothing to do with the United States. Ghaddafi's behaviour is not mitigated by the past transgressions of others.
Libyan civilians have been killed (half randomly) at a rate of no less than 1000 people per day for about two weeks now. Please don't justify inaction by blaming it on the US having invaded Iraq.
source ?
What is your source for 1000 civilians killed per day?
Constantine Kritsonis
Justification for Injustice?
How many civilians will die at the end of an American gun in the next 3 years in Libya? How many civilians will die at the sharp end of UN sanctions?
This is not a defense of a dictator or a country that is currently in political hell. But it is a criticism of us, the ones who stand by and cheer on the coalition forces, the "shock and awe" of air power and conveniently forget that a gun is a gun and dead is dead.
Watch and learn as the US puts boots on the ground over the next six months to "protect civilians" and do nothing but protect the oil infrastructure. Watch as those same civilians become insurgents, then terrorists and the hell of another Iraq, only this time, thanks to Harper, my country will be part of the "coalition of the willing."
You either protest when governments kill or you don't. Will we see a UN resolution against Yemen? Bahrain? Saudi Arabia?
Hypocrisy abounds. We should not allow it in our country or our party.
The end is the means by which you achieve it. - Wilhelm Reich, Listen, Little Man!
Judge each on its own merit
Let’s not jump to conclusions and predictions that may or may not come true. Given the circumstances, I believe that Obama with Europe has made the right decision, (for once). The world could not stand by while Gaddafi vowed publicly to hunt down every potential protester and their families (‘hiding in their closets’) and murder them. He’s a madman that doesn’t even have the forethought to conceal his psychopathic urge to kill for its own sake.
I’m no supporter of U.S. foreign policy, and I also am disgusted at the cheering and self-serving display of bravado that this attack has engendered. The U.S. is not the holy saviour of the world; its the centre of corporate global exploitation backed by a military superpower. War is nothing to cheer about. And nobody ‘wins’ a war, everyone loses. This action should be treated as a tragic but necessary intervention, period.
It could very well turn into another Iraq, and no one should be naïve enough to think that oil did not play into the equation. But there’s more than enough to criticize the U.S. and the West about, without prejudging and condemning every action before it has at least partly played out.
Your comments about the other Arab dictatorships are right on. Of course the West is so heavily invested in the middle-eastern oil-rich states that it will be much more difficult to intervene. However we can use this action in Libya as a model to put pressure on these other regimes to reform themselves.